[Kirkland]

Did you even watch that video? it contained lots of opinions by Doctors against the vaccines.

No credible doctor would be in a video with Gary Null. No I didn't watch the video, I read your sources but I'll watch your video based 'evidence' once I get back to university tonight where my internet is faster.

Yes Natalie Horton, the young Girl in the UK who died after having the Jab did have a tumour, however why are they not checking a childs health before they give them these drugs, they say themself that vaccines should be given to "healthy" children yet they dont check this before they inject them.

In order to find that tumor countless xrays and cat scans would of had to be done it would been too costly in the UK when at this time the NHS is under immense strain due to budget cuts. However if your going private and you want your child to be checked for every known aliment then go ahead. The fact is it would be costly to scan everyone's body from head to foot and the radiation from that even though its low would pose a bigger risk than the injection:P

1. If the tumour was big enough to kill her immediately, it would have been causing symptoms and she was described as 'healthy'.

While I will admit that the HPV vaccine does have above average cases in side effects in this case I and the general public do not know the full circumstances about this. She may of been experiencing symptoms which she withheld from the doctors who knows? Many doctors will agree though that in fitter and younger people tumors can be largely asymptomatic and the first sign of the tumour can be death. This is especially possible if it was Rhabdomyomas which is often a tumour which is asymptomatic. To be honest I have not looked into this case in detail nor do I think there is a lot of detail available yet all I can find was the fact that it was a malignant tumor.

2. A very large tumour would cause chest pains, breathing difficulties, poor blood flow (as they tap into the blood supply to grow). She would have felt exhausted.

Again depends on the tumour.

Those who do die of tumours do so in a gradual and painful way, usually in hospital with lots of morphine to help.

Not true some tumours can cause arrhythmias which in return can cause sudden death if left untreated there are other medical complications of tumours. However like I have pointed out not every tumour correlated to gradual and painful deaths.

If she was asymptomatic and the tumour had not been detected, it would not have been large enough to kill her instantly.

read all the above.

Doctors are supposed to ask health questions prior to vaccination and make sure the child is not contraindicated, which clearly did not happen in this case, which highlights the need for more thorough screening.

How do you propose we check for asymptomatic conditions? Should we send someone for xrays, ecg's,mri's and cat scans before attempting any jab? Lets be honest the risk is extremely low. Thousands are being given this vaccination each year and most apart from a few minor effects are healthy after the vaccination.

The Swine Flu jab wil be given to those in the high risk groups to start with, including those with some kind of illness, the very ones who seem to have adverse reactions to these vaccines.

Risk vs the Benefit there is little or no evidence that the swine flu jab will cause serious complications while with 24000 new cases each week in the UK there is a big chance that one will contract swine flu and for the high risk categories it can be deadly. The swine flu vaccine cannot be compared to the HPV vaccine in terms of safety or the effects on people with underlying conditions. If one has a compromised immune system I rather have the swine flu vaccine then the actual full blown virus.

Oh as for the herd theory it works go look at smallpox the blight of the world at one stage now its no where but laboratories.

[keakahona]

There is NO proof that it works

http://***.lowellsfacts.com/herdimmunity.html

Blessings
Jacky xx

[Datin]

I feel that the proof that it works is 86 children who did not have the vaccine in US passed, and hundreds of their classmates who had the vaccine did not. The CDC is "alarmed" at the number. Bless tiheir little souls and their families.

[Kirkland]

There is NO proof that it works

http://***.lowellsfacts.com/herdimmunity.html

Depends on what virus we are talking about if the virus is spread from person to person then herd immunity is possible but with things like tetanus which can only be caught from spores in the ground. Smallpox like I mentioned before verifies the scientist views that herd immunity is possible with some viruses. There are others which if the world combined together (undeveloped and developed world) it would be possible to eradicate certain diseases. I looked through your link and I did not see one scientific study and herd immunity does not have a flat rate of 95% (which your site mentioned) it actually varies I believe measles requires 99% to be vaccinated but I don't have the research paper in front of me right now.

[keakahona]

The number of people being infected with these diseases started to fall long before the vaccines for them was introduced and there is eveidence to support that if you google it.

The number os swine flu cases is complete nonsense, in the UK it is diagnosed over the phone (or internet) following a series of questions, patients are no longer seen by a doctor, my 7 year old was taken ill and I called our GP I was asked the questions and told she had swine flu and to keep her off school for a week, it turned out she had a cold!! even people suffering from meningitis have been sent home from hospital after being given Tamiflu, thousands of people die each year of seasonal flu and no doubt those cases will also be added to the Swine flu figures.

There are also plenty of respected physicians who have spoken about the adverse effect of vaccines and given scientific proof, Dr Sherri Tenpenny to name one, however this is a debate that could go on here forever, the arguments for and against vaccines is all over google for people to make their own mind up.

blessings
Jacky xx

[gazzAB]

Just a side note traditionally the flu virus lays dormant overr a few months until automn then begins to gather momentum again

[Kirkland]

google it

Google will tell you that pig fly and everything is cancer. The fact is the world wide web is chaotic and to tell you the truth if I am gonna get my sources from anything it would be academic journals.

The number of people being infected with these diseases started to fall long before the vaccines for them was introduced and there is eveidence to support

So something like smallpox which has been around since before the roman empire magically decreases so much that it's now only found in laboratories? The virus did in several occasions decrease for a few years due to its characteristics (there are several books on this) yet it always returned generally in 'waves' (main epidemics 1824-1829, 1840,1870-1875 and 1918-1921) due to the fact that people who have the disease generally build up immunity to it this immunity was not passed onto their children meaning a new wave when a new generations were born. That is why 90% of all smallpox cases involved children under 10.

Before the global eradication program there were still cases being reported in 44 countries. it was considered still an epidemic in 31 countries which contained 60% of the population, this was in 1967 when the vaccination was available but before the global eradication program.(smallpox:the fight to eradicate a global scourge, Koplow, David A). In the 1950's the Pan American Sanitary Organisation started a program to eradicate smallpox in the Americas in 8 years the goal was accomplished with the help of the vaccine. The question has to be asked if the elimination of smallpox was not helped by the vaccine then how come it only the area's targeted became smallpox free? Coincidence ? I think not.

Finally in 1967 the World Health Organisation started the ISEP (Intensified smallpox eradication program) which involved an international mechanism for reporting smallpox cases and a mass supply of vaccinations against smallpox (and I really mean massive). The first target was certain parts of west africa and within 3 years and 6 months the targeted counties in West Africa (including 6 which were considered the most highly epidemic smallpox locales in the world)! Another coincidence? I think not there is a pattern developing in that where the WHO targeted the use of vaccinations eradication is possible. Therefore the vaccination has been successful so far and there is no doubt that the vaccination is effective no matter what 'google' says.

I think I have made my point on this and I won't persist talking about the smallpox eradication plan unless questions persist. Bottom line from this is that the vaccine has indeed worked.

The number os swine flu cases is complete nonsense, in the UK it is diagnosed over the phone (or internet) following a series of questions, patients are no longer seen by a doctor, my 7 year old was taken ill and I called our GP I was asked the questions and told she had swine flu and to keep her off school for a week, it turned out she had a cold!!

While I agree that we don't do proper diagnosis in regards to Swine flu, there is a reason. In that it has become so widespread that the logistics of testing everyone with swine like symptoms these days is unfeasible. Secondly doctors do it over the phone because of the fact that there is a high likelihood that it could spread onto doctors and then onto patients which have compromised immune systems.

thousands of people die each year of seasonal flu

Very serious cases of flu I believe still get tested for swine flu and yes lots die from seasonal flu but the difference is its generally older people with the seasonal flu where there seems to be a significant increase in fit and healthy younger person catching severe forms of swine flu.

Dr Sherri Tenpenny

Don't know her and therefore can't comment however the number of scientists,biologists and medical professionals who support vaccinations greatly outnumbers people like her.

the arguments for and against vaccines is all over google for people to make their own mind up.

Web sites can be made by anyone and in general the scaremongering sites appear high up on google so please don't base any decisions on results from google where half the web sites don't use references to any scientific studies and instead make sweeping statements.

[Datin]

I don't know how things are handled in other countries, but here they do not diagnose over the phone. The reason our hospitals are full, as Kirkland said, the flu usually does not appear until cold weather, the virus seems to be dormant in hot weather. The weather just started to get cold. Flu season here is Nov.-Feb. (peak season). This morning I heard a report that during the so called "dormant" months, 86 children passed from the H1N1 the number is way higher than the regular flu. And yes, as Kirkland said, it usually hits the elderly the hardest. This year in US children and pregnant women and health care workers get the shot first, if there is any left, then others. I heard a report this morning only 300 innoculations left but more should be here next week before our season begins. A book I suggest reading which I read a long time ago, about the Ebola virus, called The Hot Zone. I had to put the book down, as the book pointed out, that virus's do not usually jump species, and they will jump species more and more until there is a pandemic (if I recall right, it was many years ago). I am not a fear based person but this book had such an affect on me. I guess shots don't phase me because I am from a generation that saw vaccinations save many from polio, irradicated small pox, scarlet fever, and whooping cough in the US, they are coming back now because alot are not getting the vaccines. There are risks with all medications and vaccinations. You can get samonella from eating chicken, etclll, just as there are with all things. I feel unless you follow a macrobiotic diet by home grown food and live in a bubble thousands of miles from a farm taht uses pesticides, far more damage is done by our food. We all do what we feel is best, The thing that gets to me and I pray heavily about each morning, is the number of children dying from H1N1, the CDC stated they have not seen this before. Sigh.....

[Kirkland]

[quoteI don't know how things are handled in other countries, but here they do not diagnose over the phone.[/quote]
It's the UK system where the government pays for most peoples health care (barring people who go private), the pandemic plan has been in place for a long time in the UK. After a certain threshold of new cases per week is reported they stop testing people due to the cost to the NHS and the backlog it would create in laboratories which would thus delay results for an unacceptable length of time. Keeping people at home instead of taking them to the GP or hospital (unless serious) has been the policy in the UK in order to prevent it spreading to those who's immune system's are compromised . The fact that patients in America pay (through insurance) means that there is less restraints on resources in this situation compared to an NHS which is expecting a budget cut next year (or at the very least 0% increase in budget).

[keakahona]

The death of any child for whatever reason is sad I agree, however there ARE children dying or being left brain damaged after being given a vaccine and that has been proven, as for the statistics from the CDC, accoring to them 36,000 Americans die each year from Flu but that just isn't true, here for example in the British Medical Journal it shows how those figures are made up and its all about selling vaccines. http://thinktwice.com/BMJ_Flu.pdf

Kirkland, when I said Google it I didn't mean I get my information from facebook or youtube lol, there are official reports and data available on the internet for anyone to read and Dr Sherri Tenpenny is a physician who often speaks at seminars about vaccines and vaccine injury (amoung other topics).

Blessings
Jacky xx