[kesha]

ive came across this website by accident and im thrilled.
ive never been able to explain myself properly but hear it goes,, reading your posts has brought back alot of memorys for me sum which i blocked out of my head until now, for as long as i can remember ive been havin similiar experiences as these but ive never had a nice 1, when i was younger i used to get the same thing every other wk everything used to be goin so fast my body, noise i could,nt control it even to try and wake myself up. i remember being so terrified i was scared to go to bed incase it happened. it had stoped for a few years then they came back but there always different this time. ive never knew what they were until today. i still have to sleep with the landing light on to this it was the only comfort ive ever known. is it through your worst times in life this occurs?? [/list]

[Nat]

Some people seem to have them more when stressed, but plenty of people have them for no apparent reason when nothing is going on, some people have them when they are more open to spirit - both others and their own, ... and some people can do it deliberately at will, so I don't think there are any hard and fast rules about this.

It was probably not the experience that was negative for you, but simply your apprehension about unknown experiences that frightened you and made it seem that way. I have had had hundreds of obe's and only once did something (besides initial apprehension) ever scare me once out, ... and I can't even say what that was exactly, ...but I didn't like it and deliberately hightailed it back in body and that was the end of that.

Try sleeping on your stomach if you don't want to be conscious of this happening.

Nat xxx

[charleejade]

Hi Nat

Your last comment in the post has had me puzzled i have tried to figure this one out myself as i feel i should know the answer having obe'd many times but i just dont so would be so pleased if you could inform me as to how lying on your stomach stops you being concious of obe lol i never sleep on my stomach as i find it an uncomfortable position.
I am in no way saying i disagree with the statement at all ive read lots of your post and agree with the vast majority and know you have much more knowledge of this subject than i . more just my curiosity really and well im easilly bugged by things i cant figure out. and i know this is probably gonna be one of those that when you answer i will kick myself but hey we all need a good kick now and again .
thanks in advancce for your response because this is one of those things thats niggling at me like when you cant remember a favourite song argghh

[Nat]

lol Charleejade, ... the exact same thing bugged me something shocking a few years ago, coz whilst not a 100% quick fix (I have had them lying on my stomach anyway) it does in most cases, for most people, actually work, ... but it needed an explanation beyond that.

The only possibly logical biological hypothesis I could come up with from months of trying to find an answer is related to 'Cortical Hypoxia' - which is descriptive of the state that can be induced with alterations in our blood flow to the brain (in particular the cerebral cortex) relative to our heads positioning above or below horizontal. When sleeping on our backs, we tend to have our head raised slightly above horizontal, whilst sleeping on our stomach it is usually level or angled down from horizontal, and it seems just this minute difference of a few degree's can affect blood flow enough to prevent us from being conscious through out such experiences.

As I said, best I could come up with, but it was enough to stop it bugging the bejeesuz out of me. It sits better than 'just coz' anyway ...lol. Other wise, I don't know, I'll have to revert back to 'just coz' coz it 'just does' whether a reson is known or not.

Nat xxx

P.S - I will try to explain it better later, ... but I'm being harrassed to leave work. Hmm, the man must be hungry and his domestic blindness is preventing him from finding the fridge himself ...lol :lol:

[charleejade]

thanks for the quick response Nat

well i'm defintily not kicking myself i hadnt thought of anything remotely like that in fact you would probably laugh if i told you the things i had thought about. :lol:

but that explanation makes a lot of sense actually so im going with that one may try experimenting with it too . Wouldnt it be great if the minute change in flow of blood to the brain could make us unaware of a trip to the dentist i might ask him to try doing my teeth whilst standing on my head see what happens :lol:

As for the hubby harrassing you for his dnner i have one exactly the same funnily enough though he never needs any help finding said fridge when there are cans of lager stored in there......

charleexxxxxx

[Nat]

Hey Charleejade,

Am not going to attempt the cortical hypoxia stuff atm (atm = at the moment - for Debs net lingo evolvement ...lol) - it's like 3.30 + am, I am half brain fried ... lol.

I would seriously like to hear what you were thinking tho, ya never know, there could be something in it, coz I am not convinced what I came up with is an absolute either, ... but we won't consider other options unless we consider them ... lol. So please share if you feel comfy doing that. - there may be a whole other tangent for me to explore that has not occurred to me. Please tell me too if you experiment with different positions. Love to hear about it!

Ill be in to anything that makes me not know I am at the dentist - squirm , squirm, I am getting another wisdom tooth out on the 6th of July, and tho I zone out when there, I can't help tripping about it until I am in the position of having no option but to focus on the best way to deal with it. I am certain I was psychologically traumatized by the first one being a horrid ordeal ... lol.

Yes, that domestic blindness is definitely circumstantial - the boy-man rarely drinks alcohol, but it amazes me he can be staring the butter, pepper, sauce, etc, in the face (despite it literally jumping out and biting him) while asking me where it is, ... (why use your eyes when you can use mine - I am sure that is the reasoning - no one can possibly be that incapable with no discernable cause ... lol) ... yet he can find chocolate, ice cream, pudding, waffles, custard, etc, absolutely no problemo, ... amazing to say the least !!!

Anyway, ... I am not too popular at the moment, ... besides having to feed the guy before he keeled over, apparently, I supposedly, unbeknownst to me, had the responsibility of making sure he did not ignore his alarm clock so he would wake up to watch a game of football. Never mind me speaking to him the first and second times the alarm went off, ... no - not included, ... he chose not to get up, missed out on the game, ... but that is all foggy to him so I am the bad guy ... rofl. I'd probably be a bit annoyed at him if I was not so pleased I did not have to suffer the sounds of footy in the background - which is to me - like someone scratching their nails down a blackboard for a couple of hours. Ewww!!! he he he he he :lol:

Nat xxx

[charleejade]

Hi nat

Its not that i am uncomfortable sharing my thoughts on the above post more that since you replied they just sounded downright silly lol i had all sorts running through my brain ie exit points .. being less relaxed in certain positions .. mind over matter .. ie if i dont think ill be aware of it i probably wont be lol and if we are unaware of something how do we know it actually happened.

i am still cuious though and am looking for other peoples views on this so i posted it somewhere else but they werent much help lol .

I have never actually experimented with sleep positions but i do know i never obe whilst lying on my side (wonder why ? here i go again lol ) the only experiments i have really done are the usual ones like seeing if i can find objects put there by other people so i could see if i was really obe or just lucid dreaming. more to prove to them then myself really ... also i never obe before sleep always when i have just woken up and am still in the tired /relaxed state
i have yet to learn to control it. never really thought to much about controlling it really, its always just come natural but these boards have inspired me to look a little deeper into the hows and whys and wherefores which is never a bad thing ...

well i'll keep looking out for your posts cause you make a lot of sense to me and if you ever do come across another theory be sure to let me know and i will you. but for now i'll settle for the hypoxia theory cause its keeping my mind from whiring with unanswered questions lol

lol at the fingers down the blackboard...Im actually a keen football fan myself my boyfriend however hates it strange eh .. but it can be explained pretty easily i grew up with two brothers no sisters . my dad was fanatical about football so its pretty ingrained in me really .

I knew when i mentioned dentists in my last post i maybe shouldnt. I have an abscess now thats threatening to over rule my mouth (much to the delight of my boyfriend, thinks it will stop me nagging ) :lol: so its a trip to the dentist monday for me ..unfortunatly I cant zone out like you I am just too petrified and all my great relaxtion techniques seem like a distant memory once im in the chair ... i'm sure he's trying to kill me lol

bye 4 now charleexxxxxxxxx

[Nat]

Now I have had time to ponder, there is not a lot I can add to the 'cortical hypoxia' comment without quoting neurosurgeons and the like in which case it will start sounding like Swahili or something ... lol. I think you get my point anyway, but for general info purposes for anyone interested, in basic Nat language, lol, ...

... Anytime our head is raised above horizontal we are to some minute degree in a state of cortical hypoxia, - meaning blood flow to the cerebral cortex of our brain (which runs the whole CNS - central nervous system, through which we physically perceive everything) is lessened. Normally this does not effect us coz we have sufficient blood pressure to maintain all systems at sufficient function.

If you research the term tho, you will find most info on the net will relate to drastic conditions such as heart failure, vascular disease, etc, ... and actually supports the scientific stand point of many in that field, that obe's and nde's are simply the result of reduced blood flow to the cerebral cortex, or electrical stimulation, etc, and nothing to do with an after life.

Well, I am not stupid, I am not about to dispute scientifically supported stand points, but I also know on a personal level, that whatever may be scientifically provable to possibly trigger such occurrences, it only supports that such things can induce such experience, but lends no weight at all, in my opinion, to the hypothesis that such experiences are not 'reality'. When science says it is all in the mind, ... I say PERFECT, ... coz it is absolutely about the consciousness/ mind existing beyond the physically measurable bounds. So science and I agree here, we just have different viewpoints on the realistic legitimacy of the result. I personally have gotten abundant evidence of obe's having a basis in reality.

Anyway, ... what need to be brought in to play to perhaps make such a hypothesis applicable to the difference in sleeping positions is first and foremost, that in sleep states all our vital signs reduce, ... our breathing slows, our heart rate decreases, along with that so does the blood flow through out our bodies. This natural reduction, combined with our head being in an elevated position, (as often the case sleeping on one's back) may just be sufficient enough to induce a compatible level of cortical hypoxia to be a natural, non biologically threatening state, in which the identical experiences to those artificially or traumatically induced can occur. With our head level or on a downwards incline, (as per sleeping on our stomach) this might just retain enough blood in the brain/cerebral cortex with the decreased blood pressure to prevent such experiences from occurring.

I can't prove any of this, I am not a neurologist, and I won't say it is absolutely the case, ... but I do think it is definitely a hypothesis with some credibility within science, ... which is once again, a better possible explanation than 'just coz' for a phenomena that 'just does' appear to be the general rule for most people in most circumstances.

Ok, that ended up a bit longer than I planned on ... lol, ... but there ya have it, my hypothesis on why sleeping positions can and usually do affect the occurrence of oob experiences.

Nat xxx


P.S: Charlee, ... I have 3 brothers and no sisters, ... I am not excusing you from watching football ... lol. Just Joking! :lol: Different courses for different horses!

Thanks for giving the gist of your thoughts, ... I don't think anyone can categorically say there is nothing in them, ... it is just my nature to look to science before paranormal so this is the angle I have come up with. Right or wrong! If you do hear some other views elsewhere, perhaps you could share the general gist of them with us as they come up???

I am glad my comments on various threads have made some sense to you, I was initially none to pleased about all this going on, (in and oob like a yo-yo ...lol) but it makes it all have more purpose when I can share something that resonates with another and perhaps answers questions for them. Enjoy your experiences, ... I am impressed you are actively looking for evidence within them. Don't be hesitant to ask spirit to give that evidence to you either, ... it may not always come in the form of a physical recognition, but perhaps within them predictions, interactions, evidence for others, etc, which can all be confirmed as having some basis in reality

Best wishes for your dentist visit, ... and just a hint, ... (hopefully you will see this before going) close your eyes, breathe through your nose, ... and focus on the flow of your breath - though your nostrils, down your throat, ... and take it past your lungs , in to your stomach. Watch it's path both in and out, the expansion and contraction of your stomach, your chest, the rise and fall of your shoulders, ... try to not give any attention to anything but the process of breathing, ... if your lucky, ... you may find it takes all your attention intitially, then seemingly you're suddenly not really thinking about anything at all. This is what I do at the dentist and going in to trance. Works for me! Lemme know how it goes!

Nat xxx

[charleejade]

Hi again Nat

Well i did a bad thing lol ..... i asked a question somewhere else and they confused the hell outta me . didnt have much on the sleeping position theory apart from to remember an obe return yourself to the position you were in when you had it and to forget one move to a diff position and the memory of it will fade not sure i believe that im sure i turn over 100's of times in the night and stilll remember them so anyways its brought up a whole other bunch of questions in me and another reason to stay awake all night pondering ...... not that i need an excuse for that im a bit of an insomniac.. i do feel though you have too look around to get a good variety of opinions and peoples experiences to find out whats real for yourself and whats not and to find your own truth... but heres the gist of the things ive read elsehere. so far.. mirrors being portals in obe that you can walk through and they will transport you somewhere else :lol: erm if you can see things while obe like time on clocks and the earth plane it isnt an obe only a dream obe:?: people arranging to meet other people while lucid dreaming at certain set times at certain places. obviously its all to do with our powerful minds so you can make it whatever you want to be i guess.... lots more but i cant remember them now just remember thinking omg lol... so yeah theres lots of different perspectives out there and i enjoy reading them all but i think i may stick to here for now and some good books and websites ... just really interested in this subject all of a sudden not sure why ive been doing it over 11 years and never thought too much into it other than enjoying it maybe something has stirred in me and theres an answer out there im supposed to find and haven't yet who knows.

well i went to the dentist it wasnt so bad ...... he sent me away with antibiotics till the abscess clears so i feel i got off lightly but thanks for your advice i'll be sure to give it a try next time..

thanks for all your help im pretty sure i'll have some more questions for you soon enough the way things are going ? :? sorry if im being a pain theres just so much too take in but i love it

charlee xxx

[Nat]

He, he, he ... I have heard the mirror thing too, -even pictures . I can't concur with that tho, ... or the returning to the same posi thing, ... or even that gaining physically measurable insight denounces an experience to just a dream.

I won't tho say that thinking about someone can not be a cause of an encounter with them that may be (and probably is) utter mind dribble. I was joking with a friend on Sat night that I would not mind dreaming about Matthew Mc Conaughey (the ultimate masculine epitome in my opinion - even my man can't dispute me when I point out his abs or what not out - despite him having a pretty good 6 pack himself ... lol) ... and well lucky lucky me, who did I dream about that night - Matthew Mc Conaughey. Unfortunately nothing noteworthy ... lol, :wink: ... but he was the main attraction none the less. :lol: I wish it was reality, ... but no, I don't think so ... lol. Doh!

Good luck finding your answers, ... and no, your not a pain in the slightest!

Nat xxx