[Kirkland]

Many people who have been close to death or resuscitated report a similar experience: Feeling an “out of body” experience, seeing a bright light and experiencing a flood of memories.
Many people consider the experience spiritual in nature, but a study published online this week reveals physiological markers of the event.

Researchers at George Washington University studied seven patients who had normal brain function but were fatally ill and whose families had chosen to withdraw end-of-life care. The patients, who had various illnesses including cancer, heart disease or multi-organ failure, were monitored with a device that measures level of consciousness as well as an electroencephalogram device that measures brain waves.
The study published online in the Journal of Palliative Medicine showed that, in each case, loss of blood pressure was followed by a decline in activity related to consciousness. But then a spike of electrical brain activity appeared on the EEG recording in the moments just before death.
This burst of activity in all seven patients was comparable and consistent in duration.
The researchers suggest that because the spike in brain activity occurred when the patient had no blood pressure, patients who suffer “near-death” experiences may be recalling “aggregate memory” stored in the nerve cells of their brains.
“Near-death experiences have been documented by a large number of people,” the authors wrote. “Interestingly, these descriptions tend to have a similar theme in that the recollection is vivid and detailed. … The end of life is a poorly studied area of clinical medicine and deserves more attention.”
Source: LA Times

Any opinions on this? Personally I believe that this increased in electrical brain waves may have some relation to NDE's. Perhaps its true that the sudden spike causes NDE's but there are several problems with this theory. Take for instance a once atheist now turned religious man Rev. George Rodonaia who was pronounced dead and left in a morgue for three days only to come back to life when a doctor started making an incision as part of an autopsy. There have been several other cases too but they are not verified they include Emanuel Tuwagirairmana who claimed he was dead for several days and actually returned to his body finding that his arm was partly eaten by magots. There are lots of these stories and all of them last longer than a brain wave spike. Now many scientist may say it's simply the brain making up things but if thats so then surely people should not be able to give detailed accounts of conversations.

[Geiger]

that is just ****.. NDE's and OBEs ARE REAL.. there are things that can cause this experiences to ocur, triggering the mechanisms of soul and consciousness. I am sick of frustrated people and doctors.. scientists that have THE ANSWER to everything from their scientific point of view.. being ignorant and superior to all of us who are just "hallucinating".
Trust only your experience.. and nothing else.

[Kirkland]

[quoteTrust only your experience.. and nothing else.[/quote]
If a tree fell down and you did not experience the sight of it falling down does that mean that the tree did not fall down? Science will always try to explain things. If science did not question things or try to explain things many technological advances would not occur. I agree that this new theory shows no merit but I would love for doctors and scientists to continue working on theories until they come up with one which can account for everything be it spiritual or not.

[Geiger]

I was just encouriging action and own experience instead of so-called scientific "explanations" or religious doctrins, so I was going a bit deeper with that... Scientific fact means that an event can be repeated, using the same environment and factors in order to obtain an expected result, with very big precision each time. We are all unique, we have our own ways of perceiving what happenes to us... so.. that being said, science can not explain spirituality, because the object of study is missing.. it is not real, as science needs it to be, it is emotional (triggered by some psychological and physical factors). Recently I saw quantum physics trying to explain some stuff.. like non-location of particles and soul.. probably just another atempt to "explain" and destroy the idea of soul and consciousness.
now, what that tree has to do with that?

[SemperNox]

Originally Posted by Geiger

that is just ****.. NDE's and OBEs ARE REAL.. there are things that can cause this experiences to ocur, triggering the mechanisms of soul and consciousness. I am sick of frustrated people and doctors.. scientists that have THE ANSWER to everything from their scientific point of view.. being ignorant and superior to all of us who are just "hallucinating".
Trust only your experience.. and nothing else.

More accurately, the perception of NDEs and OBEs are real to the individual experiencing them, and unverifiable via any legitimate scientific study.

Science is the pursuit of knowledge and understanding; I fail to see how that's "ignorant" or "superior". Seeking verification and validation of theories, or incorporating new information to form new models is the only reliable means of testing the rules and foundations of our universe. It can be a gradual process with many mis-steps, but each advancement comes with the goal of more closely and accurately describing reality ... from the farthest reaches of space and time to the human experience.

How is seeking pure objective truth inferior to deluding one's-self with solely subjective anecdotal evidence? Many things which seemed unlikely or impossible only centuries or decades ago are now understood and harnessed thanks to persistence and increasingly sensitive observational technology. Just because we currently can't measure fringe events doesn't mean they'll stay in the realm of personal faith forever.

I personally believe everything in the universe -including paranormal, spiritual, and metaphysical events- leave measurable traces and, as such, will eventually be testable scientifically. Until such a time when the inexplicable is explained and understood, my scientific mind accepts the fact there is no solid evidence for many things I choose to believe or have personally experienced. I have formed many ideas for how the supernatural world works, but I'm willing to modify those ideas as new evidence and experience comes.

[Geiger]

All the scientific effort is being directed in such a way to prove that nde and obe are only hallucinations/illusions.. that is what I find ignorant. Nothing sounds like: "Looking to solve the mysteries of soul" or... everything is like: "Possible cause of nde/obe hallucinations"

got my point now?

[SemperNox]

Originally Posted by Geiger

All the scientific effort is being directed in such a way to prove that nde and obe are only hallucinations/illusions.. that is what I find ignorant. Nothing sounds like: "Looking to solve the mysteries of soul" or... everything is like: "Possible cause of nde/obe hallucinations"

got my point now?

No, I have not "got" your point.

Discounting corporate, religious, and politically motivated "scientific" studies (about as scientific as anything put out by Scientologists or Ramthans ... that is to say, having a strongly motivated bias to emphasize skewed of results), true scientific effort is to find deeper truth and understanding. What deeper truth and understanding can be found by assuming the results before conducting the experiment? A true scientist may have expectations, but will not allow their hopes to taint their interpretation of impartial data.

I do believe (based both on personal experience and scientific data, although I'm not immune to accepting new and sufficiently compelling information) NDEs and OBEs are largely effects of the human brain shutting down at the point of death; but that doesn't mean there isn't an afterlife or paranormal phenomena, nor does it mean such physiological effects are entirely detached from the metaphysical ... only that the death throws of the human brain don't prove the existence of the spirit realm and our sensors aren't sensitive enough to detect possible finer details..

Naturally, everyone is free to believe what they wish, regardless of the amount of empirical proof or anecdotal here say there is to support said belief. After all, if everyone unquestioningly accepted given understandings, we'd still be practicing the architecture, religion, and customs of the Sumerians (or some earlier society.)

[Sentri]

I think NDE could be very different from death. They are 2 kinds of experience. Death is rather a fated process. Last time I died and decended to hell. Then I was raised back. My problem was that my soul didn't seem to combine well with my body, within the hour after coming back. So I continued to be able to experience things in hell while 4 doctors kept questioning me to see if I was truly conscious. They were scared after knowing that I was fully conscious.

[gazzAB]

Originally Posted by Sentri

I think NDE could be very different from death. They are 2 kinds of experience. Death is rather a fated process. Last time I died and decended to hell. Then I was raised back. My problem was that my soul didn't seem to combine well with my body, within the hour after coming back. So I continued to be able to experience things in hell while 4 doctors kept questioning me to see if I was truly conscious. They were scared after knowing that I was fully conscious.

I would say that wasnt a NDE that was more likely to be imagination as imo there is no hell and your spirit fits very nicely in to your body.

[Sentri]

Originally Posted by gazzAB

I would say that wasnt a NDE that was more likely to be imagination as imo there is no hell and your spirit fits very nicely in to your body.

First, that doesn't seem to be what the doctors concluded. Second, it is your belief without proof that it's an imagination (or is it your imagination that it's my imaginatoin?).