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#31
Wed, 16th Jul 2008
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interesting debate but....
i dont believe heaven, hell or rooms in a mansion exist.
In spirit we pass through stages of learning and it is our perception that changes as we learn, not the place we exist in. I believe that reward or punishment for our actions is not in the form of where we end up, but is spiritual, in that we develop spiritually. Therefore our reward is spiritual advancement. Not advancement to another place. 
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#32
Wed, 11th Mar 2009
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after life
Hi, I know probably less about the after life than almost any one in the world....just kidding about that - I have formed some opinions after years of study - of course along with my opinions come more questions than answers. Years ago I pictured it as a beautiful place as stated...streets lined with gold, etc. Quantum Physics tells us that (as stated in the first post) we are living in a world of perception (I apologize for the spelling - time has robbed me of my good sense). Everything is made of atoms - atoms are energy, therefore objects that seem solid are really not because subatomic particles pass right through them and we can not even see them. I read the first post with interest and plan on reading the book. If this existence is truly not what it seems than what will the after life be, more of the same? We call this existence the "physical" world and our perception is that is physical. Many people see the after life in a physical nature but my understanding is that it is not physical so we must exist in spirit only which makes me wonder if spirit's can see each other and if so, what form we take. If we do in fact move on to higher planes with each life, providing we have learned enough in this or another life then when does it stop and exactly what are we learning? To love unconditionally and forgive all?
I believe main stream science has for years studied the existence of alternate universes and planes of existence. Seems more and more are getting on board with this premise. I feel I learned a lot from reading Elizabeth Kubler Ross books about working with terminal children as a nurse. She considered herself a non believer in the after life until she began to talk to children who experienced a near death experience and found they were all very similar. Sorry, that's not relavent to this post, just thinking out loud. Thanks to all for helping me with my questions regarding spiritually and this life we live.
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#33
Thu, 9th Apr 2009
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This talk of Houses and Mansions is intriguing, but I wonder exacrly what Jesus said, never mind what a string of translators, interpreters, copyists, editors and revisionists have done with whatever the original words were?
Being unfamiliar with First Century Greek and Aramaic, I, like most people, have to be content with what the experts claim is the equivalent in modern English, and I will go with that... Empirically, I'd say it has something to do with size. A house is smaller than a mansion, so how can any house be full of mansions - logic says that even one mansion would not fit into a house? I therefore think it is supposed to mean 'I can't explain/describe it really', or/and 'it is an impossibilty'. It is actually an interesting example of how pointless but amusing the Bible, and our interpretation of its contents can sometimes be. Unfortunately, such issues of trivial grammar, mistranslation, misinterpretation, and general misunderstanding have caused countless deaths, untold misery, fear and pain, when those who claim and insist that THEY KNOW, demand everyone else agrees with them, or are asked awkward questions about their authority. Following the WORD of the Bible, rather than its spirit, only makes sense if the words in question are exactly as God dictated them... and whatever people say, there is no infallible issue, copy or translation available!
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#34
Fri, 10th Apr 2009
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lost in translation
Warwick, I agree with you 100% - you said it much better than I could have - what you said is what are my thoughts but when I started this I just could not find the right words - you did. The hard core bible people (no offense intended to anyone) will say the bible is God's word written through man and it is the last word of God. But if you mention the books Conversation with God or A course in miracles they become offended. My question to them is - if God could write a bunch of books thousands of years ago through people who may not have been as sophisticated as us than why could he not do the same again in an updated version. If you have ever read Conversations with God one of the first things Neal Donald Walsh asks God (if you believe this is for real) is about Jesus dying on the cross. The answer was "Jesus did not die on the cross for your sins, he died to show you that there is life after death" (or words to that effect. He also asked about the 10 commandments and God told him they were not meant to be COMMANDMENTS that ye shall live by, they were meant to be "guidelines." Besides, if you take the 10 commandments literally, you could boil them down to just two since there are some that seem repetative. Now I don't know about you but just those two alone sound more like what a loving God would say. Whatever or whom ever God is. I have probably said before, I do not believe in sin and the bible probably mentions sin a million times. What makes more sense to me since God gave us "free will" is he/she/it would be very happy if we make good decisions most of the time, however, he/she/it knows that's impossible and I personally do not believe a loving God would hold "his children" responsible (for making some mistakes) enough to condemn them to brimstone and hell fire for eternity. Thank you again for putting it in a much better form for us to understand. By the way - if you have never read Conversations with God or A Course in Miracles you will find the words coming from the higher power are quite thought provoking and you would ask yourself "could a mortal man come up with these words just to sell some books." I have no affiliation with either but I have read all.
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#35
Sat, 18th Jul 2009
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Have you considered this.
[quote=Warwick;32481]This talk of Houses and Mansions is intriguing, but I wonder exacrly what Jesus said, never mind what a string of translators, interpreters, copyists, editors and revisionists have done with whatever the original words were?
Being unfamiliar with First Century Greek and Aramaic, I, like most people, have to be content with what the experts claim is the equivalent in modern English, and I will go with that... Empirically, I'd say it has something to do with size. A house is smaller than a mansion, so how can any house be full of mansions - logic says that even one mansion would not fit into a house? I therefore think it is supposed to mean 'I can't explain/describe it really', or/and 'it is an impossibilty'. It is actually an interesting example of how pointless but amusing the Bible, and our interpretation of its contents can sometimes be. Unfortunately, such issues of trivial grammar, mistranslation, misinterpretation, and general misunderstanding have caused countless deaths, untold misery, fear and pain, when those who claim and insist that THEY KNOW, demand everyone else agrees with them, or are asked awkward questions about their authority. Following the WORD of the Bible, rather than its spirit, only makes sense if the words in question are exactly as God dictated them... and whatever people say, there is no infallible issue, copy or translation available |
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