I am curious why you joined this site if those are your beliefs? It doesn't make since to me. I think maybe you want proof of your own...Sue

[Suebh]

"They may well have been very clever in their own field , but that does not qualify them to make the quantum leap to communicating with the dead"

Interesting statement eye, can you qualify it with research, tests, studies etc? I would be interested in viewing and reading those if you are willing to share. Test studies etc of course must be carried out under very stict protocol which must also be recorded. The statements we 'mediums' make can be qualified, have been studied and researched by all these 'very clever' people.

Sue

[TraceyUK]

Well Horus ... for us that do believe/know that spirit does exist, is very real and does communicate ... Hows about giving us some proof positive that it isn't real. If we see, sense, hear etc ... you give us some proof that it isn't real if you can .... instead of us having to prove to you it is real. Then you can tell us what happens to the energy of each person that does die ... yes we can turn off the electricity and gas, but that doesn't mean it is not there anymore ... if you have a gas leak it mixes in the air around us ... it doesn't just disappear ... it is still there. You don't see the air around us but you know that is there because without it you would be in spirit thinking back and laughing maybe at how you couldn't believe that you would be there ... or would you be sat thinking i am not real and i don't exist so can't communicate with anyone?

Tracey

[eyeofhorus]

I would question that Sue............there is not one shred of evidence that mediumship exists.

As for the rather benign statement

for those that do not believe no proof enough
for those that do no proof is necessary

, surely Enna you are capable of better than that.

Sue , I was drawn to the forum by the exhumation of the Mirror article , in which I had more than a passing interest . As for my own proof , I have experienced far more phenomena than probably most of you have.I have also been singled out as having excellent mediumistic qualities....however I
have not been beguiled by these events as most are......I can see through them .

A medium fools no one but themselves , and a few who are taken in by their babblings.

The Eye

I like your self confidence horus.
Thats one reason I dont dust in case I am throwin out my Grandma :lol: :lol:

[TraceyUK]

This delusion manifests itself in various levels.....from the single individual , who gets comfort from the fact that he/she has "special abilities" , which of course we all have its just that some know how to use them , some do not ,

With this statement you are telling us that we are all delusional beasts???

We all know that everyone has the ability and try to tell this when people ask questions ... you are putting all those that have recognized their mediumistic ability together as the same ... we are not ... we are all very different and I wouldn't criticize the many because of my experience with one. Also .... I don't think I am special in any way because I have an ability, and yes some do charge to make a living ... if that is where all of their learning goes rather than learning how to work a fax machine so they can do office work ... it is their right ... and it is up to each individual if they CHOOSE to pay for the knowledge and message from a developed and well practiced medium

[quadrant]

I say bring it on !!!! and dont question why a none believer comes to this site , it is healthy to have sceptics as members - it makes life more interesting to have differing opinions . Id like to know what was in the Mirror though eye??? also your experiences of which you are so dismissive of their source or do you know the answer and can elaborate

:wink:

[abbondanzieri]

Quote:
I think before making such sweeping statements you should do some serious investigation of mediumship and Spiritualism then you can point the finger at people like:
...

That's simple.....they were all deluded / misguided.

They may well have been very clever in their own field , but that does not qualify them to make the quantum leap to communicating with the dead.

i believe this is called the argument from authority. :wink:

[Suebh]

Eyeofhorus can you quantify your statements please. THis one is particularily interesting to me...As for my own proof , I have experienced far more phenomena than probably most of you have.I have also been singled out as having excellent mediumistic qualities....however I
have not been beguiled by these events as most are......I can see through them .
I have no idea who you are and what your experiences are, you are only referring to them in a round about way and want us to believe them. You say you are a medium yet do not believe in spirit, I trying to get my head around that :? Its like saying that you know black is black but are insisting its white! Your postings seem interesting but you do nothing to substantiate your claims so please forgive my questioning and curiosity

Sue

[myself]

Eyeofhorus thanks for your insights, as unsubstantiated as they are, I respect your views and wish you luck on your journey. I won't address your beliefs as they are yours and you are free to believe what you want. I know for me I have had all the evidence I need, both from personal experience and from knowledge gained through reading and teachings. Sibyl has given you some great pointers on where to find scientific evidence to back the knowledge of what I and many others believe. May I add to this list David Fontana's book Is There an Afterlife?: A Comprehensive Overview of the Evidence. This book looks at the evidence from a scientific view point and allows you to come to your own conclusions.

OBL yes I agree with all that you say and yes for us the one thing that makes it harder is for fakes to make everyone look bad. But ( and there has to be one) this show has added to the people that are currently looking into spirit communication, and that has to be a good thing. Yes there are those who will not take that any further, but there are many (like listen2spirit) who do, and for each person that does look into this area, and scolars such as yourself and Sibyl who spend their time and effort in teaching spirit truths this has to be a plus.
Even if they do not take it further, like our friend eyeofhorus, the seed has been planted, whether they like it or not the idea of spirit contact is there, therefore the seed of life after life is there. I think I am right in saying it was Silver Birch ( and quite a few of the spirit teachers)who said that one of the saddest things to see in spirit are all those who believe that there is no life after life. Sleeping and waiting for the 'resurection'. Well if all these people have a seed planted, even if they don't take it any further, surely the fact that the seed is there will help in stopping this sleeping for eternity? That is my point. Maybe I am making it too simple, but to me that is the eternal need.
So while yes it makes our lives harder, which isn't nice (and harder for the top mediums who become tarred with the same brush) I feel that there are bonuses to the situation which in the long term outway the short fall. We already have the sure knowledge that spirit live. Passing that knowledge and giving scientific proof is one part of the job. Planting the seed that will help people go on with their journey is another part.

love Joy xxxxxxxxx