[catzzz]

All this thread does is open up a big can of worms, what about the World War's, any war, ongoing war's, millions upon millions of people killed because of land & greed & man. Yet its accepted, it happens, even the good family man can go to war, kill a few men and come home a hero, but yet putting a rapist, child killer/ killer to death is wrong? Its all killing isnt it? The taking of life. I do believe we are born the way we are, once a killer always a killer, once a rapist always a rapist etc.

I do not see putting anyone to death (war or otherwise) is the answer.

I belive that all souls good or bad if you can define good or bad go to the same place. I feel that in physical life we have much to learn and evolve as the years go by. Sometimes something may happen in a persons life that makes them do wrong things or even kill or sometimes the person is just like that. I feel when we get to the other side we learn the error of our ways much as we do in physical form and evolve but in spirit form. :smt024

[karen1977]

Originally Posted by Bonnie

Nice idea but who is going to pay for it, prisons are already overcrowded.

Good point. Also, are their 'lifestyles' really taken away? Ian Huntley has Sky TV, a games console, access to a library, access to a gym most of us would pay hundreds of pounds a year for-is this what passes for punishment? Meanwhile the parents of those two little girls have only memories. Maxine Carr meanwhile, we're told is PREGNANT- how is that justice?
Against the death penalty, due to room for error & miscarraiges of justice, but are our criminals really paying for their crimes when living such a cosseted existence? I sometimes wonder who has it better, that's all. Maybe hard labour should make a comeback. Or maybe we should try and find out why so many people end up killing in the first place. I also wonder what people think of soldiers-aren't they paid killers? So many ambiguous messages, it's no wonder the world is full of violence.

[karen1977]

Oh yeah, and they're allowed to smoke-giving them more rights than us. SO NOT FAIR!

[Melissa569]

I think it largely depends what that person did to deserve it. If they were innocent, they'll probably hang around until they're name is cleared. If they were guilty, and if the crime was really bad, they will go wherever bad spirits usually go. Or haunt people just to be spiteful.

[karen1977]

Hi Melissa, aren't there lots of spirits still on Alcatraz? Watched a show about it a year or so ago. Thought i'd ask you, seeing as it's sort of your neck of the woods. If it's true, perhaps your theory has legs! Were people executed there? Don't really know too much about it, other than the obvious-(Al Capone, birdman & that Clint Eastwood film,lol). Wondered if you could shed some light.
Karenxx

[spiritalk]

Perhaps we have missed the point....we are spirit when we pass along. This spirit existed right within the physical body to allow us to accumulate experiences. The more we spiritualize those lessons, the higher in spirit realms we draw. We must fit ourselves to occupy the level of spirit by earning through learning.

To think that the criminal would land on the same level as perhaps a Mother Teresa would be ludicrous at best. At worst it is a idea of having to live with those not yet spiritualized. Spiritualizing our soul has its privileges - we no longer live within their sphere of activities as was necessary in the mix on earth.

In the afterlife is justice. This is not quite the same as exercised on earth. But it is justice of the spirit and spirituality. The more light we shine in our own spirituality, the higher in spirit realms we are fitted and suited to climb.

And there is always more opportunities for change and growth once in spirit form. When the criminal soul is ready to open their own spirit to lessons of spirituality, they, too, can move forward and onward in their journey of learning and growing. If we believe in reincarnation - let's just hope that those not elevated are not the ones allowed to do the reincarnation. It is not a good soul we would be living amongst on earth and there are already too many of those now.

God bless, J

[Warwick]

In answer to Windswept... a year later...

"Feeling rather confrontational today, so:

To start my rant, lol. - I am pretty sure Christ would have something to say about this?"

Do you mean Jesus of Nazareth, who suffered the death penalty himself (most unfairly IMO)?
I have to say, he apparently recommended observence and obedience to the Ten Commandments, as mentioned in the Old Testament, and the first of them (IIRC?) was pretty unequivocal - "thou shalt not kill". This is in fact the reason that the Pharisees handed him over to the Romans, in order to get rid of him permanently without having to dirty their hands and break a commandment.

This was an early example of the 'holy hypocrisy' which became commonplace when the Christian church weedled its way into power, and wished to dispose of enemies - hand them over to the secular authorities, we can't kill. Disgraceful IMHO, and it goes on to this day in some ways - you never see a 'proper' execution without a chaplain present...

All the teachings of Jesus were conveniently forgotten, put aside or corruptly edited and added to by the third century, to please Roman tastes and European despots, a sound political move, but a vile piece of dishonesty. Had he stayed in his grave, the poor guy would have been spinning in it for nearly 2000 years by now!

The mere word 'christ' would not appeal to him, since he was an honest man, and was NOT the messiah, he was a... no, I'm going to say it! He was not literally 'the son of God', his message was that we are 'children of God' - the clue being in the 'Lord's Prayer' he supposedly left us with... "OUR Father, who art... etc."

In case you are wondering, I have had some 'help' with this 'blasphemy', from one who really knows... and seems somewhat sad, upset and annoyed.

[Gaylon]

i myself don't believe in the death penalty. I think some 1 putting there self in God's place is wrong. It isn't there decision, but then again the post above made a good point also, about the prisons being over crowded. Soooo what do u do to people who keep messing up?

[lemonelemi]

Originally Posted by noreen

i belive in 'a life for a life'....sorry guys i belive in capitol punishment, if only our law was like the law in the united states, the crime rate in the uk will go down...god knows what goes through the mind of killers, rapests, paedos...and why do they do it????...im sorry but if it was a friend or family member or someone i love who had been murdred raped and so on, i would pull the plug on them

And on and on it goes, *** for tat? You've only got to look at the effects of 'an eye for an eye' with Palestine and Isreal to see how that particular ethic works!

I'm a great believer in karma. I also believe that our souls are separate from our bodies and that if we are given a body that is, for example, given to addictive or violent tendencies then it is our lesson in life to control those tendencies and not give in to what that body craves in terms of deviant behaviour. We are all accountable. And those who transgress in this life will be accountable in spirit and the next life where they will surely be sent back to learn the same failed lessons again. This is how the soul learns and develops.