[Sibyl]

Originally Posted by ddomepaint

Well first off it would depend on if the person is guilty or not. If they are guilty and are killed prematurely then I believe that they are reabsorbed into the Godhead. People whom have committed terrible crimes will not be allowed to continue on in Heaven. But... they are put on this earth so that we experence the hardships that are needed to complete our charts that we have set up for ourselves. We would never learn anything if all was hunky dorey.

I am not too sure where you got this information from as it certainly isnt from spirit.

All people are spiritual beings and as such are also immortal beings which means we live forever. If we have hurt, or even murdered someone, irrespective of whether or not we are caught, we carry that guilt with us for eternity and that is sure some punishment.

luv
vi

[noreen]

thanks vi i do know what your saying...i know it didnt come from spirit..it come from me...i belive they are giving a a choice when they cross over x n x

[Sibyl]

you changed your name to confuse me noreen?

I do prefer noreen

luv
vi

[noreen]

noreen it is lol xxxxxx

[akkayakr]

So many issues discussed here, so many ideas.

I think that there is more than just a single set of planes, here and there, earth and heaven, instead I think there are as many as seven planes, perhaps more. Physical, Astral, Mental Buddhic, Nirvana, and a couple more at least. They are higher in vibration states then the Earth plane. I think there are physical problems that can account for some peoples actions, like mental illness, but I think there are also persons who just don't have , .... what Morals, ethics, a compassion for the suffering of others. These persons feel nothing for others and can delight in there own experience of harming others without feeling anything negative. I think that thoughts are energy and they have a power, this energy has a vibrational state also. In the higher states of heaven ( if you will, planes of existence ) higher vibrational energy must be present for you to exist there. These lower vibrational thoughts of killing, hate, anger, harm, energy do not exist in higher up states of heavenly planes. In the Astral, the next higher plane, has many of the emotional states of thoughts that do exist here on Earth. If you are the person that is the physically mentally ill then I have heard that the wrong that you did you hold a less of a responsibility for those actions, because it was of a damaged mind, or malfunctioning chemical balances in the physical state that lived in and built up a presence that energy and behavior. like there were and aura memory state that was the sum of you For these souls there is a kind of cacooning and angels go to work on soothing and helping the energy of the soul to come back to normal. The nature of the evil person though did what that did by choice, because they choose to think and see life they way they do. For this, these souls still think and produce the lower energies and so because they do not on there own produce higher thoughts of love, compassion, kindness, joy, ... they are bound to lower states of existence. The lowest of the lower states of existence is not a comfortable place to be. The Astral is vary sensitive your you thoughts and produces an environment that is harmonious in accordance with those thoughts and perspectives, so not a nice place to be if your mind and heart is not of a hight quality. Some people that do have near death experiences do report that there experience was frightening, and as a result they have tried to make a change in there life since there Near Death Experience. I think they caught a glimpse of some of the nature that their own mind is producing as energy and this is like a reflection of who they are. It can be hard to look at ourselves sometimes. In converse to these lower states, the more divinely you express life and how you share your love unconditionally, and marvel at learning new things, art, dance, music, meditation, high intellectual thinking like advanced math, and sciences, these persons experience quit a difference state of existence. It is like God gave you free will, but you are the one that goes out and explores what you want too. You choose the frequency at which you want to vibrate at as an entity, You can always change it and move up or down, but there are limits and changing as a person, the soul will not take to quickly, and it could be that if you choose never to chance you never will. So the bad souls may choose to stay that way, and they may choose never to seek a inward divine kind or bliss or love in side themselves as a state. Now is this Heaven and Hell, is this reward and or punishment? some may choose to see it like that, but you have more than one life, and infinite amount of choices. I wonder when it will be before we all get tired of being jerks, or putting down others, or prejudices, or even seeing wars as valiant. You choose. One of the biggest lines that is over looked in the Bible is " The Kingdom of Heaven in within you". We have eaten from the tree of knowledge, the tree of life, we have chosen to learn the difference by experience of Good and Evil.

well, that is one thought anyway.

[lizza78]

I do not like killing,even if a person have donne some thing really wrong i do not like that somone shall judge them to death.Its like playing good.
it is indeed killing. And by doing so they are no better than the killer in the first place.because they kill to and that is a deliberate killing.
So its almost like double moral.
Its like somone are allowed to take life,but if other do it they get killed for it.
And maby by killing they take away an important lesson to learn on earth.

[Windswept]

Feeling rather confrontational today, so:

To start my rant, lol. - I am pretty sure Christ would have something to say about this?

Personally, I Don't have a problem with the death penalty.
[I am not sure that I deem Capital Punishment/the death penalty to be the best way to create a civilised society, some mistakes can be remidied and yeah we can be wrong, but it is rather effective]

With regards to where they go - Why not to heaven like everyone else? if there is no hell then hey, they are going up there with everyone else anyway.
Personally, I don't think I would have a problem forgiving them. Crime is a manmade measurement, a rule of society and what mankind deem to be the 'Right way'.
You think a Lion is going to hell for murdering then eating a wilderbeast because he was hungry, hmmmm :-k ?

Its the nature of our environments which lead us to these so called heinous crimes, it is by no means for me a measurment of how we will be judged on the other side.
In this world we are restricted to the rules & punishments of our society, if we break these rules as a means of preserving our lifes Or the lives of our families, I am certain that if it was me I would not be taking the judgement of any man with sincerity. Yet again I do have an understanding of the Rules society brings and am prepared to face the consequences of my actions, regardless of whether I think it is right or not.

If in their world (to use an example), a Man has commited murder as means for his survival, what guilt should he feel? Is this any different from progressing in the business world by treading on and mistreating your peers to climb the ladder (That kind of person would be deemed sound in society as a person with drive for success), in my eyes this could be seen as far worse as you know and understand the effects this will have on the people you are doing it to and still do it.

[Akkatyr - Interesting.
Planes of existence, I certainly beleive that they are there [and seven aswell] - We'll need to raise another thread on this for Discussion.]

Take Care Guys.

[Sibyl]

Are we not limited the planes of existence to the no. 7? What happens when we have evolved to the end of level 7? Do we fall off the edge?

Eternity has no numerical, spatial or time limitations otherwise it would not be eternity

luv
vi

[Windswept]

Hey Sybil,

Thought your response was going to be a bit more axing,lol.

Yeah - Not sure that I beleive that we are eternal just yet [Mainly because I don't like it and understand it fully, but not a good enough reason to rule it out]

I do however beleive in Reincarnation - And for that we can be eternal and have a fixed number of levels. (well - we need 1 at least anyway)
Will definately raise a new thread on planes of existence at some point this evening.

Take Care

[Delete this post if need be - I'll re-raise it]

[Rosedawn]

I don't know about the spirits of those executed on Earth, but I had an experience many, many years ago where the spirit of a Nazi soldier came through to me. He would not talk to me unless my room mate, who we later found out had a Jewish mother, although she was raised Anglican, left the room. I asked lots of questions about God and the nature of Heaven and Hell. He told me he had never seen God, and basically floated aimlessly in some "dimension." I got the impression he was restricted to a certain area, and until he resolved his issues, he would not progress. His energy was extremely negative and he still saw nothing wrong in his actions causing death and pain for many Jews and others in Germany in WW II. I felt he was in torment, but the torment of ignorance that existed in his "mind." His energy felt thick and black.

If we see our time on Earth as a learning experience, we cannot condemn anyone else for their decisions here. Despite the horror and pain some people's actions cause, if we can see the really big picture, we can feel compassion for the entire situation, including the perpetrator and his family, and the whole of society. I know this is extremely difficult. Everything we do to another, we do to ourselves. Every action taken on Earth affects every being, situation, thought and energy field. We are all connected. Thus, to kill someone who committed a crime hurts us all in some way. However, that might be part of the learning that was intended by the situation. Some souls come to teach, others to learn, some to do both. What each gains from the Earth experience will be different, and we can never presume to know....