[FireDreamer]

Originally Posted by Sibyl

I think the tunnel effect happens with near death experiences and I feel this is the spirit leaving the environs of the physical body and a tunnel effect is created.
luv
vi

So, are you saying that while in an OBE, you can actually see a tunnel with a white light, if you're nearing death??? I don't get it. Yes, I've frequently seen a white light tunnel several times...and a few times have headed towards it...voluntarily...however, I didn't think it was an OBE.

Am I misunderstanding this???

[mauriemw]

You asked what is the point? what does it prove ?

there is no point ! it is not a expierence the intellect can grasp, only be involved in
.
it is what it is !

[annie1]

Originally Posted by mauriemw

You asked what is the point? what does it prove ?

there is no point ! it is not a expierence the intellect can grasp, only be involved in
.
it is what it is

Actually there is more truth to that statement than not, in my opinion! It's like anything that we can do as humans, it may not always have a "point" however, it is available and in our reaches.

annie xxx

[mauriemw]

Annie I have had literally hundreds of full conscious out of body experiences and have found that the astral isnt only "available' as a experience but is fundamental to the fabric of our identity the experience of form orientated consciousness/the physical world would be impossible with out the astral experience /dynamic
there is no "point' where they the physical and astral are really separated,
with the 'development" of abstract intellect , the experience of separation (ie) the externalization of "inner' reality into a form orientated serial symbol/event structure that is linear ,( one event/symbol following another in a straight line,) the subjective expierence of "time passing", with beginnings and endings
allows individualized consciousness to come and go from the physical body into the astral and back
but in reality we are multidimensional beings our mind/seat of consciousness need not be"in' our body as in reality
our body is "in' our mind, which has no boundaries other than those that we create in our unique expierence of self.
All the best!! (C ) Maurice W Male 2010

[mauriemw]

Well V. your at the very start of a great adventure and in a place most find themselves (ie) dealing with all the "expert knowledge" about the astral environments "natural laws" what will and wont happen if you do ,or experience this or that FORGET about all the warnings about evil spirits, the devil , valley of death, straying down the tunnel towards the light, staying away from your body too long, or you die or go insane. all that stuff is very old fashion, think of it as a redundant piece of software.left over from the ritual action to ward of evil mind set that has/is being passed down.(mainly as control others through fear mechanisms)
You can work all those "elements/elementals" into a full conscious out of body experience ,but why bother?
it's your experience it can be what ever you want/believe in,! you are already a multidimensional being !having a form orientated/physical adventure if you desire it ,you will soon experience/come to know the more semi physical/subjective "portions' of your identity i have gone into more detail in other post about my experiences with the nature of the astral so I wont repeat ,but trust in the innate goodness of the nature, your nature of consciousness .and if you have any questions just ask V. all the best!

[mauriemw]

Originally Posted by Livewire

Hi Vi

great reply and makes perfect sense to me thanks.
I have myself whether this was in dream state or whether i was astral travelling i do not know but i was laid on my bed and i can remember that very thing looking down on myself it really did scare me a bit at the time i just felt like i was floating above and monitoring over seeing my human body on the bed , this is as far as i got as yes i was frightened it didn't seem right at the time, but then i awoke like id just had a bad nightmare shaking and wondering what on earth had just happened.

regards
Ant

Hi L.W. The difference between dreaming and astral traveling is the amount/degree of WAKING/I AM AWAKE !, CONCIOUSNESS that you bring to the experience. The 'inner' identity dynamics/mechanics with which you create the dream "environment with' are almost identical to the ones you create the astral and physical environments with. all the best L.W.

[annie1]

HI Maurie,

You know.. after sitting here and reviewing some things that you have mentioned in your posts on this particular thread.. I cannot help but to think that most of what you speak of is about a "paradox".

Paradox : a statement that is seemingly contradictory or opposed to common sense and yet is perhaps true.

The human conscious mind that disbelieves in outwardly existence ( Out of body experiences) yet, experiencing OBE's would be considered the paradox to human thinking.

I also thought about parallel existences within the paradox. ( mind boggling if you think about it long enough) lol. Parallel existence as being spirit in human physical form yet able to experience at the same time spiritual experiences inside of human resistance. So then I had to think of what the paradox would be to this equation.. and what I came up with is (thought) is the paradox.

what do you think?

annie xxx

[mauriemw]

Hi Annie, yes paradox can be /is multidimensional , to individualized consciousness it becomes/is a fundamental identity dilemma,

(by ego I simply mean I )

The ego attempts to see its self as initiating/creating
the action that it resulted from
The ego is the result of action, not the cause for it

from this symbolic/event abstraction ('seen' as identity dilemma)
flows the stories of the creator god
the god that came before the first beginning
when in reality life has no beginnings or endings it simply is !

The first point( in creation) is the largest , but also the smallest
it is everything , but because there is no comparison for it. it is also nothing
similarly the paradox is : the understanding is never in what was
written (the abstract symbolic representation)
only in what was read ( subjective self comparison/value fulfilment)
but to the 'portion' of the intellect the I (ego) that is abstract/'form orientated' the
abstract/externalized symbol structure (the writing) is the knowledge !
this = paradox/fundamental identity dilemma 101

ps whatever you think, feel, understand has been written HAS BEEN as you are the creator
of your own reality/actuality at all times ,wether you ,want to be ,or believe you are!
Individualized conciousness, externalizing, structuring the actuality expierence
doesnt/can not change the nature of reality
All the best ! (c) Maurice W Male

But yet the point of OBE's is simply to prove that our spirit doesnt die it moves on. That there is a deeper meaning in life and even in spirit form when we meet others we still effect them even if it may not seem so. So the point of OBE's is to obtain more knowledge of the spirit world first hand then in the human years. To live with this knowledge and pass it around to other so others maybe be enlightened. Even a simple skeptic story makes a difference
My opinion ...

[mauriemw]

Originally Posted by FireDreamer

So, are you saying that while in an OBE, you can actually see a tunnel with a white light, if you're nearing death??? I don't get it. Yes, I've frequently seen a white light tunnel several times...and a few times have headed towards it...voluntarily...however, I didn't think it was an OBE.

Am I misunderstanding this???

Hi Fire Dreamer, You can see a white light tunnel, or ones in every colour of the rainbow !
for that matter ,it may or may not be a obe, or a nde ,or it could be either, or both.!
THERE IS NO BLUEPRINT! ! conceptual/symbolic/event structuring 'knowledge'
of the nature of reality is like sand running through your fingers.
All the best ! (C) MauriceW Male 2010